Adam Flager Esq. & Jeffrey DeLin Esq. | 05-13-25 | Flager & Associates Personal Injury Hour

01/15/2026

When someone gets hurt, the first thing that breaks isn’t always a bone.

It’s certainty.

Because right after the impact—whether it’s a workplace injury, a crash on the clock, or a jobsite incident—most people aren’t thinking clearly. They’re trying to keep their life from unraveling in real time:

Who do I call first?
What do I say… and what should I not say?
Am I about to trust the wrong person and pay for it later?

That’s what made this episode of the Flager & Associates Personal Injury Hour on WWDB Talk 860 so useful. What began as a discussion about House Bill 308 and a shockingly overlooked gap in worker safety quickly turned into something more practical: a clear breakdown of how injured people get protected—or left exposed—based on communication, coordination, and experience.

On air, host Joe Dougherty was joined by:

Adam Flager of Flager & Associates (personal injury)
Jeffrey DeLin of Krasno Krasno & Onwudinjo (workers’ compensation & Social Security disability)

And together, they covered what too many people don’t learn until they’re already in the middle of a claim: how the system really works—and where it quietly fails people.

A Safety Gap Most Workers Don’t Know Exists

The episode opened with a topic that surprised a lot of listeners: not all Pennsylvania public-sector workers are protected by OSHA standards.

DeLin explained that OSHA sets minimum safety standards for things like:

chemical exposure
noise exposure
hazardous machinery
jobsite safety practices

But in Pennsylvania, many public sector and Commonwealth workers aren’t covered the same way, which is why House Bill 308 was introduced—to create more equal safety protections for public and private workers.

It passed the House, but as DeLin warned on air, the Senate may not move it forward—making it a “call your representatives” moment for anyone who cares about worker safety.

Adam added an important personal injury layer: even when OSHA reports can’t simply be dropped into a case, they can still be powerful tools—helping identify who was responsible on complex job sites with multiple contractors and subcontractors.

One Big Theme: Workers Deserve Protection—No Matter Who Signs the Paycheck

Joe connected it to what he knew from years as a union ironworker: OSHA isn’t just paperwork—it’s the reason certain dangerous shortcuts get shut down before someone dies.

The conversation made something obvious but rarely said out loud:

If a job is dangerous, the worker should be protected—period.

Adam pointed out the bigger reality: yes, safety standards can slow a project down, but that’s the point. The alternative is faster work with higher injury and death rates—and nobody should be treated as expendable because a timeline got tight.

Who These Firms Are (And Why Experience Shows Up in the Client Experience)

Joe then shifted the conversation from policy to people, asking both guests about their backgrounds—because for injured clients, the “who” matters just as much as the “what.”

Jeffrey DeLin: From Catastrophic PI to Defense to Judge… Back to Injured Workers

DeLin explained his path through personal injury litigation, defense work, and then 15 years as a workers’ compensation judge—before joining Krasno 13 years ago, where he now serves as managing partner.

It wasn’t just resume talk. The subtext was clear: someone who has decided thousands of cases knows where cases get won, lost, delayed, or quietly mishandled.

Adam Flager: High-Volume Court Experience + Private Practice + Family Firm Culture

Adam outlined Flager & Associates’ focus:

motor vehicle cases (car, bus, truck, pedestrian, bicycle, Uber/Lyft)
premises cases (slip/trip-and-fall—from broken sidewalks to spills)
dangerous/defective products

He also explained why it mattered that he worked in Philadelphia motions court and practiced outside the firm before joining it: you learn rules, pressure, procedure, and case flow differently when you’ve seen the system from the inside.

Then he emphasized the firm culture—low turnover, multi-decade staff, and a “family environment” clients can actually feel the moment they walk in.

The Client-Attorney Relationship Isn’t a “Nice-to-Have”—It’s the Whole Case

This was the heart of the episode.

Adam said the most common complaint he hears from people who used other firms is simple:

“I don’t know what’s going on.”
“They didn’t listen.”
“They don’t really know my story.”

And that’s not just frustrating—it’s dangerous.

Because if your attorney doesn’t understand how the injury is affecting your life, they can’t fully present damages. Medical records don’t show everything. The real impact often lives in the day-to-day details:

how you sleep
what you can’t lift anymore
what care responsibilities you can’t handle
how pain changes your routine and work capacity

Adam explained that sometimes clients need to vent—because they’re overwhelmed, scared, and angry—and part of the job is helping them get through the process without letting the process break them.

DeLin backed it up from the workers’ comp side: comp cases can last years, and clients often need education as much as representation—because insurers and employers have done this “thousands of times,” and injured workers are seeing it for the first time.

The Hard Truth: Loyalty Doesn’t Protect You When You Get Hurt at Work

DeLin put it bluntly: that “gold watch” loyalty culture is mostly gone.

He described a pattern he saw repeatedly: an employee gives decades to a company, gets injured, and suddenly the tone changes—cold shoulder, hostility, shunning, pressure.

Adam connected it to pro sports: you can win championships for a team, but once you’re injured and performance drops, it’s still business.

The takeaway wasn’t cynical—it was protective:

You have to look out for yourself, because the system is designed to protect the bottom line first.

When an Injury Happens on the Clock, You May Have Two Cases (And People Miss That)

This was one of the most valuable “listener education” moments.

DeLin explained: if you’re driving for work and you’re in an accident that isn’t your fault, you may have:

a workers’ comp claim (medical bills + wage loss)
a third-party personal injury claim (including pain and suffering)

Adam added two critical details most people don’t know:

Workers’ comp doesn’t pay 100% of wages—so the gap can become part of the third-party case.
If the injury reduces long-term earning ability, “earning impairment” can significantly change the value of the third-party claim.

They also stressed something most firms don’t talk about publicly: coordination matters. A comp lawyer and PI lawyer need to communicate, because one wrong move—like changing an employer entity name improperly—can damage the other case.

That’s where strong referral relationships become part of the client’s protection.

The Quiet Advantage: Great Firms Don’t Just Work Hard—They Work Together

Both Adam and DeLin described what happens when experienced firms coordinate:

sharing records
aligning strategy
reviewing settlement language before signatures
preventing errors that can destroy third-party rights

They also touched on how often third-party angles get missed without experienced attorneys—and how a significant percentage of comp situations can have additional responsible parties (equipment manufacturers, other contractors, maintenance vendors, cleaning crews, etc.).

That’s not “legal trivia.” That’s real money, real recovery, and real justice that people can lose if nobody is paying attention.

Contact Information Mentioned on Air

Flager & Associates (Personal Injury)
Phone: 215-953-5200
Website: FlagerLaw.com
Locations: Trevose | Philadelphia | New Hope
Serving: Pennsylvania & New Jersey

Krasno Krasno & Onwudinjo (Workers’ Comp & Social Security Disability)
Website: KrasnoLaw.com

TRANSCRIPT

Joe Dougherty (Host)

All right, ladies and gentlemen around the Delaware Valley, welcome to the Flager & Associates Personal Injury Hour here on WWDB Talk 860. We’ve got a great show planned. We have our host, Adam Flager, who is actually remote today. Adam, how are you, sir?

Adam Flager (Host)

Doing well, Joe. Good to be here.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

It’s great to have you as always. And we have Jeffrey DeLin, who is the managing partner at Krasno Krasno & Onwudinjo. How are you, sir?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

I’m great. Thank you for saying that right.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

I got it right. You know what’s funny? I was thinking about that— but you guys have been in the market so long. I got it, you know, it’s kind of a household name in Philly, but I can imagine, you know, maybe the first, you know, 100 times I didn’t get it right, but I got it.

So we have a great show. And, you know, we talked about something going on—House Bill 308, okay? And House Bill 308 is an interesting—I’ve talked about it many times—and Jeffrey DeLin is going to lead us on this. And it’s a very interesting situation. It’s actually—when I say interesting—hard to believe, because I was a union iron worker for 20 years active, okay?

And so OSHA— and I shout out to my good friend Nick the Jesse, who is a regional director here, you know, in Philly. I just did a show with him at the office not long ago. We’re going to be doing another one.

But it’s actually mind boggling that not all workers, okay, are protected by OSHA protections— now, federal workers in particular. Now, it’s an interesting dynamic, if you will. Judge, talk about it and, you know, give some info.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

So, you know, Joe, in Pennsylvania workers’ compensation—if you’re hurt at work—we as workers’ comp lawyers representing the injured worker don’t really focus on fault, how the injured worker got hurt, because it’s a no-fault system.

But when it comes to worker safety and their rights, I was flabbergasted when I learned that the public sector employees and the Commonwealth are not covered by the minimal safety standards that OSHA puts forth.

So for your listeners who don’t know, OSHA is a federal operation. Its word is the law, and it sets forth minimum safety standards for like chemical exposure, noise exposure, working around hazardous machinery, that sort of thing.

The folks who work in municipalities, townships, the Commonwealth, cities in Pennsylvania are not covered by OSHA protection, and this bill sets out to equalize that for public and private sector employees.

It just passed the House. We have every reason to believe that the Pennsylvania Senate is going to kill it. So I’m here to ask your listeners: call your representatives, make sure that your public sector employees are protected.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

And Adam—have you ever— it’s not something that a lot of people talk about, but is that something you’ve ever— is that legislation you’re familiar with, or is this the first time you’re hearing it?

Adam Flager (Host)

Yeah, no, it’s a very important piece of legislation.

OSHA works a little bit differently in the PI world than it does elsewhere, because I can’t take an OSHA report in my case and introduce it because of hearsay concerns.

So what I can do, though, is get information from that OSHA report that I can use in other ways— that I can question witnesses with— and also find out who the correct party is.

Especially when you’re dealing with these construction site injuries, and you have contractors and subcontractors, and subcontractors of subcontractors.

A lot of times, these reports help you sort out who is really involved, what their role was, potentially some of the contracts, and then I can use that to cross-examine witnesses specifically from those companies.

So even though that document’s not admissible, I can cross-examine them and say, “Well, you’ve seen this report, and you knew that this was a violation two years ago. What steps did you take to correct it?” And they didn’t.

So the fact that we have so many employees that are not covered by this, as Jeff said, is a real big problem.

And the hope is that all employees—if they’re in a dangerous situation—they’re protected, right? Just because they’re municipal employees doesn’t mean the work they’re doing isn’t dangerous and can’t lead to injuries or death. It can.

And that’s why we need this type of legislation.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

So Adam, let me ask you a question, because, you know, we don’t get involved on the OSHA side of things that often.

If you represent a guy who is doing road work and he gets splashed with hot tar, and the tar was handled improperly— when you sue whoever— can you say, you know, this tar wasn’t kept at the right temperature, you guys didn’t maintain certain safety procedures with respect to how you handled it— can you do that in your case?

Adam Flager (Host)

Yes, but we can’t solely rely on the OSHA report to establish that.

It might give way to other documentation, or potentially documentation within the OSHA file, but then you would need to establish that so that you’re not running afoul of the hearsay protections.

And just for our listeners’ assistance: I can’t just find a random document and say, “Here, this document says A, B, and C,” right? Because I’m trying to use some out-of-court statement in this case— a document— to prove the truth of what’s contained in there.

But if I can take that document and then question their public safety— or their safety manager— or someone else who’s aware of it and who read it, then I’m getting it in.

And then I can establish that they knew this hot tar was an issue, and they knew it was being mishandled and they did it.

Or if I can find prior complaints that are in their file— now it’s coming from their own documentation— and I can get it in and establish that these guys knew about it, and they failed to take protective action to keep everyone safe.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

You got to wonder why federal workers are not covered by the OSHA protections.

I did ask that question to somebody not long ago, and the answers I got— and that was vague— were that they’d be suing their own employer or something like that. That if you’re a federal worker, you’re suing the federal government or something.

And so— and that was not something somebody was actually defending, but it was something that was stated.

You know, I remember as an iron worker for many, many years— man, OSHA, if they were—especially a union iron worker— okay? I mean, we’re right out there in the middle of everything, so— and the big jobs.

So you’re on a big job— you are magnifying glasses on you— you are very conscientious.

Okay, those— as we all look— you’re also on a high rise building and you’re in the middle out there. You’re being pretty conscientious as it is.

But those guidelines are all around. They’re even in your mind. Like in other words, a lot of the safety rules and regulations are based on them. You have a lot of education.

I just did a show with the GBCA—General Building Contractors Association—downtown, and they are the organization that the contract union contractors join, and they provide all kinds of great resources.

And as a union guy who does the labor show, I gotta appreciate your union contractors. They don’t have to be union, you know what I mean? And so they’re putting a pretty penny out there and doing a great job.

But the safety results on a union job— I don’t have the stats on me right now— but are exponentially higher than they are on a job that’s not union.

And the reason for that— you know— the OSHA regulations, okay? And also the education and the training and apprentice school and on the job.

You got a job steward on every job.

And a lot of injury attorneys like yourselves could write those— and I’m sure you could write those job steward protocols— you know, and what should be done on that job to protect your members, and what to do in case somebody gets injured.

But the fact is, the relationship with OSHA is incredibly important. I mean, there are some things that— for example— here’s an example as an iron worker, and I’m sure there have been examples you guys would be somewhat familiar with this.

We call it “Christmas treeing,” okay?

So Christmas treeing is that somebody’s in a hurry, and you’re working with a big crane. You know how they bring the beam down? And the two guys—two connectors— hook the beam into the chokers, and they fasten it.

Well, on certain situations, they’ll Christmas tree, which means they’ll put three or four beams hanging off of chokers.

What the strain hits— I mean, that comes off of that hook and that ball, and they all come crumbling down.

Well, you know, OSHA is a massive reason why people don’t do that.

Like in other words, they can see— they’re all over the place.

Those protections save lives.

And you know— so it’s—but that, you know, in your world, are they— would you call them regular safety— in my world I would call them guidelines. And also accountability you’re worried about.

It’s hard to believe that OSHA does not go around federal jobs, you know, and public sector situations.

What do you think the impact of that is?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Well, you know, it’s minimum safety standards, and it doesn’t apply to Commonwealth agencies.

So like I— take that hot tar example. If you’re doing road work or you’re a corrections officer, you’re a police officer, a firefighter, you’re landscaping for a borough— you don’t have OSHA protection in Pennsylvania if you’re employed by a Commonwealth agency.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Does that mean that they don’t get fined for breaking rules and regulations— or not by OSHA— wow.

Unknown Speaker

That’s just absolutely out of control.

Adam Flager (Host)

So, and that’s potentially why they don’t want to do it, because they don’t want to have to start fining these municipalities—taking taxpayer money from— you know, the federal government’s got a lot of money, but a town, a city, may not have those same resources.

So if they get hit with a big fine that they didn’t put in their budget, that can be problematic.

And so that’s certainly one of the considerations that goes into: why aren’t they included?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Well, and Adam, you know from your line of work that employers and businesses like to take shortcuts to get more production out of their employees.

And OSHA would slow that down because of safety protocol.

So you can see there’s another reason as well.

Adam Flager (Host)

I mean, people always complain about why these construction projects take so long in the US, and they’ll point to China and say, “Well they built this bridge in a month and it takes us a year.”

But we don’t know how many people got injured on that job, or— God forbid—lost a life.

And I’d rather do it slower and safer than cut corners at the expense of the workers.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Well, you ever— you know if you get Facebook— you ever see reels?

I saw one yesterday where there was a concrete core building, okay? And I mean it was like they’re showing a guy—

Say you got planks and you got— you know— you got it— you know what the plank sits on, okay?

Guy’s up— I mean, he’s got to be 400 feet, standing on the structure— you know that metal angle that the plank was— you know?

I mean there has to— there’s a million reasons for it why you need these protections.

But again, you guys are saying it also protects you against the predatory contractor who’s in a massive hurry.

And I’m looking at this guy— I’m not kidding you— I was looking at this guy because they showed him and then they veered down with the camera, and you’re like, “Oh my God.”

So he’s standing outside on the outside of this concrete core on an angle. And I’m thinking, “Oh my God.” I mean, the death rate must be astronomical.

And so, you know, that’s why we have them here.

So it passed by one in the House, okay, but the Senate— it’s not looking like it’s gonna—

Do we know when? Or have an idea?

Well I’ll tell you what: go Google House Bill 308, okay, in PA, and that way you can get some information on it, maybe contact your employer— your politician— your local politician— your senator— your PA state senator.

In fact, I’m going to be making some calls fairly soon about that because guess what: until what happens to your family member or friend or you know yourself—if you’re lucky enough to live through it—but maybe you’re not so lucky with your health.

We’ll keep an eye on that certainly. We’ll give some updates next month on the broadcast.

Let’s do a little bit of introduction. Let’s go around the horn.

We’ll start with our guest, Jeffrey DeLin. Jeff, if you would— a little bit about your pathway and about the firm.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

So I came up through the personal injury world. I represented folks in general personal injury litigation, catastrophic personal injury litigation.

Then I switched over to the defense side, where I represented employers and insurers in workers’ comp cases, and then became a workers’ compensation judge for 15 years in Berks and Lehigh counties, primarily Lehigh there.

I decided thousands and thousands and thousands of cases and mediated as many as well. I was a pretty renowned mediator.

And 13 years ago this month joined the Krasno firm— as the ad says— I could have gone anywhere, but I chose Krasno.

And for the last four or five years, I’ve been the managing partner there.

We handle workers’ compensation and social security disability cases.

We’ve been in existence for 86 years.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

How was the transition? Did you enjoy it? It was obviously a different change from behind the bench, you know, to—

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

When I was a judge, and was reading the transcripts of the kind that I used to produce, I said to myself: when I ever go back to private practice, I’m going to practice totally differently.

Unknown Speaker

Still very thorough and—

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Focused, but don’t waste time on a lot of the stuff in the weeds.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

What— do you ever run— I mean, inevitably, especially when you first made the switch— run into a lot of judges that, you know—

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Oh yeah. I mean, I knew everybody.

And how was that? That was— sometimes it was great. Sometimes it was a bit awkward.

And sometimes the lawyers that were in front of me are now judges— that have become judges since—

Unknown Speaker

You know, since I stepped away from the bench.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Oh my God.

Have a conversation with somebody and say how odd that is— that has got to be the rarest thing.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

It is. It’s great to see though, okay, because becoming a judge for a lawyer, I think, is the pinnacle of a career.

Awesome.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Adam Flager, if you will, sir, a little bit about your pathway and about the firm, my friend.

Adam Flager (Host)

Sure.

So Adam Flager, Flager & Associates. We are a full-service personal injury firm.

Motor vehicle, which includes anything from car accidents, bus accidents, truck accidents, getting hit as a pedestrian, hit on a bicycle, Uber and Lyft— which is obviously increasingly more popular to use, and therefore more common to have accidents with.

Dangerous products, premises cases— so slip and falls on anything from a broken sidewalk to spilled milk in the grocery aisle that they didn’t clean up.

I was a law clerk for two years in motions court in Philadelphia, out of law school, and then went into private practice and joined Flager & Associates, which was founded by my father in 1990, about nine years ago— nine plus years ago.

And yeah, it’s been great. Still great. Still love it.

Unknown Speaker

How was that interview process—

Unknown Speaker

Grueling? You know, 30-some years long.

Adam Flager (Host)

Yeah— background checks, you name it.

But in all seriousness: I think it was good for me to get experience outside of the firm— certainly something my father wanted— and I really appreciate because, first of all, working in the court system was wonderful.

Philadelphia is high volume, so you see everything and you see a lot of it. You might see one type of motion that you have to practice— that you have to do as part of your private practice— once every couple months or so. But when you’re in the courts, you’re seeing multiple ones a week, if not a day.

And so you get that experience: able to identify issues, figure out the procedural rules that could be the bane of many attorneys’ existence.

And then going into private practice, seeing how different firms operate with different case management systems, different approaches to handling claims, clients, handling cases— and then bring some of that into the firm.

If there was an improvement there, hey, let’s bring that. If it was being done better at Flager & Associates, then let’s stick to that.

So just having a fresh perspective, I thought was really helpful.

But yeah, we really have a great system, great staff, which is why we have very low turnover, because people love doing the work. They love working as a team. They feel respected. They feel seen.

And as a result, we have people that have been there 20, 30 years— even a couple people that left, thought the grass was greener, and came back after different opportunities, because they realized it was just a great place to work.

Unknown Speaker

Of course, when they came back, that pay got cut in half—

Adam Flager (Host)

And it wasn’t like a malicious thing when they left— different reasons for it.

But the point was: they got other experience, which is good, because then they brought that back, and now they have a new perspective, just as I did from working elsewhere before I joined the firm.

So it’s really a wonderful family environment. And not just because my father and I work together, but a lot of family members:

Stepmother is our office manager. My sister’s our bookkeeper. And two of our paralegals are mother-daughter.

So it’s just really a very warm family environment.

And our clients pick up on that. They feel that, and they respond well to that because they know we’re looking after them in their best interest and not just treating them as a number, which is what the insurance companies do and what we have to fight against.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

So it’s interesting, because we’ve all seen, you know, certain— I can think of a commercial where a son is clearly— started the firm, and listen, I would do the same thing— what his dad— okay— and now he’s the one on the commercial with the dad, and that’s cool, don’t get me wrong.

But I really admire the approach your dad took— making you— because it does add— no matter what— a respect thing. Like in other words, you have an experienced team of attorneys as Krasno has, and you know that— it is important that a father or a firm owner makes his son earn his stripes before he comes into the— you know, it just shows you, in a sense, even though your dad is a really reputable attorney and a great guy— that you’re earning your stripes, man.

And Jeff, do you know Adam’s dad? Have you ever met him?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

We’ve absolutely— I’ve known Randall— Randy— for forever.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Well, he looks like he’s about 28 years old. I could not believe it when I first met him. I walked in— I’m like, we must have went to high school in the same year.

But whatever. By the way, you got great genes, so you’re— that’s a great thing.

But having said that, when you talk about the culture at a firm, right— and Jeff talk about the culture over at Krasno Krasno & Onwudinjo.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

You know, we are a family-centric firm. We are not big corporate.

We know all of our staff— what their kids are doing, what their families are doing, how everybody’s doing.

We have a wonderful workplace. We have parties. The group’s coming in tomorrow for lunch.

It’s— we work hard and play hard.

Unknown Speaker

Fantastic DJ. Everybody’s rocking and rolling.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Now that’s great. Well, you know, it’s amazing that the firms that are successful— there seems like—

And you’re— of all people, and I’ll say this Jeff— you leave your ego at the door. You’re one of the most qualified, experienced attorneys in the entire industry.

And I’ve noticed that a lot of the great firms— that’s a clear trait: people— you could be walking around with sunglasses on, laying back and spitting out orders.

But the fact of the matter is, that rubs off on clients, right?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

All of our lawyers answer all the calls. We don’t— there’s no filter to get to our lawyers.

I mean—

Joe Dougherty (Host)

That’s fantastic.

As this guy Eric here— right here— he’s a problem. He thinks he’s better than everybody— our producer. I know he’s barking orders. He just threatened that he was going to take us off the air.

But no— it’s one of the quality traits that successful attorneys and firms have.

And your responsibilities though— you didn’t only switch from behind the bench back in representing injured workers— but you’re also the managing partner. Talk about that.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Oh, well, yeah. I mean, I have a caseload I’m responsible for.

I have my fingers in everything from finance, marketing, intake, operations, difficult cases.

I’m all over the place all the time.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

So yeah, you’re wearing a lot of different hats. That’s good and that’s vital.

I guess organizational skills are added— being a managing partner at a firm like Krasno— being organized with the caseload and all that has to be a priority.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Yep. All that. And it’s all about talking to people. It’s about relationships.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Fantastic. Let’s talk a little bit about the client experience.

And I’ll start with Adam—soup to nuts.

Okay, Adam: what do you think the client-attorney relationship should be, and what your clients expect when they retain an attorney in your field?

Adam Flager (Host)

Sure. So you need to have someone that listens to you and understands what you’re going through.

I say that first because it’s one of the biggest complaints I hear from people—either that have used a different firm and they’re unhappy, or just general complaints I hear about lawyers— that, you know:

“I don’t know what’s going on with my case.”
“They didn’t take me seriously.”
“They don’t really know my story.”

And as a result, how can they do anything for me if they’re not listening to me and they’re just talking to me— or not speaking English, speaking legalese.

So one of the things we really pride ourselves on is meeting people where they are, whether that means physically: “Hey, I’m in the hospital and I can’t get to you,” and then I’m on my way to the hospital.

Or they don’t have a car because it was totaled in the accident.

If they want to do it over the phone, they want to do it on Zoom— however they want to do that— and having that open dialog with them throughout the process.

So that way they know they have someone who understands them, who’s in their corner, who’s fighting for them.

Because if I don’t know those things, how am I supposed to really fight for them and advocate for them?

And so we have a very warm staff, friendly. We want to hear from our clients. We want to know what’s going on. We want to be kept afloat of progress with their treatment and doctors appointments and all of that.

And, you know, give them— a lot of times— and Jeff knows this probably even better than I do— we have to be life coaches. We have to be motivators, because people have gone through the ringer and they need someone to guide them into a better place.

And so that’s a big part of what we do— understanding what they’re going through so that we can try to get them to that better place together.

And sometimes I have 20-minute phone calls with my clients, and they’re venting the entire time. They’re not mad at me— they’re mad at the person that caused their accident, that caused all these injuries, that required all this treatment or surgery or what have you.

But they don’t have anyone else to vent to. And so if that’s what I need to do on that phone call, then that’s what I need to do.

And my client feels better. They get it off. They usually apologize afterwards. I don’t take it personally, and then we move on together.

So that’s a big part: you need to have that compassion, that empathy, and fully understand what a client’s going through.

Because just saying “I have a back injury” or “I have a neck injury” is not enough.

You need to be able to say: how is that really affecting you?

Because it’s not obvious. It’s not obvious from the medical records.

And if they have— hey, they take care of an injured or a disabled family member— that’s a bigger issue than shows up on the records that needs to be part of the case.

And that’s the type of thing— that information you get when you’re having a real conversation.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Jeff, in the work comp world, okay— you’re dealing with slightly different dynamic: individuals who are often injured but afraid to even exercise their rights because they either don’t want to make waves, they think they’re suing their employer, they’re afraid they’re going to get fired.

Talk about that dynamic— especially when somebody’s coming in for the first time.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

I will— I’d like to just piggyback on what Adam said.

Adam, I 100% agree with you. We do become life coaches in addition to legal counselors, and it’s absolutely critical to an effective client-attorney relationship.

In workers’ compensation, our cases tend to last longer than a personal injury case. In a personal injury case, the accident happens, Adam puts it into lawsuit, it goes to trial or it settles, and it’s over.

In workers’ compensation, if somebody’s case is denied, we litigate it and win— that’s just the start of the process.

And we have clients for years because their cases may not settle. And workers’ comp— the insurance companies and the employers always try to get a second bite at the apple. It’s not over until there’s a settlement or a final loss.

So we become very, very close with our clients because it’s not a one-time transaction.

And when we are bringing on a new client, we explain to them that the insurance companies and the employers have done this thousands of times. They know exactly what to do.

And you as the injured worker have no clue on what’s right, what you should say, what you shouldn’t say, what medical treatment you’re entitled to.

So not only do we become legal counselors, but we become educators.

And that’s one of the really important roles that we play with our client.

And if they are reluctant to come on board because they’re afraid they might rock the boat, we explain to them that it’s better to have us in their corner helping them navigate these rocky waters than having their ship crash before it gets safely ashore.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

And how many people are trying to do— you know— trying to do it on their own, navigate because they’ve been injured and they’ve worked for the company for 20 years— trying— they’re sucking it up best they can.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

You know, Joe, it struck me when I was a judge: the loyalty— the gold watch at the end of 30 years— ain’t happening. It hasn’t happened for a long time.

You can be a totally dedicated, hard working employee, giving really your body to the company.

And the first time some guy picks up a box that’s too heavy— and he’s been picking up that box for 40 years— and he blows his back out, they give him the cold shoulder. They treat him like dirt.

He’s shunned. His coworkers have to pick up his slack. There’s hostility.

It gets ugly real quick.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Let’s do this: we’re going to take a quick break, okay, and then we’re going to come back.

We’re going to have more from the Flager & Associates Personal Injury Hour with our host, Adam Flager, and our guest, Jeffrey DeLin, in just a minute.

Have you been injured in an accident? Is the insurance company giving you the runaround?

You need a Philadelphia personal injury lawyer who knows how to get results. You need Flager & Associates, P.C., located in Trevose, with offices in Philadelphia and New Hope.

The law firm of Flager & Associates proudly serves injury victims throughout Pennsylvania and New Jersey.

Whether you’ve been injured in a car accident, a truck accident, a motorcycle accident, a slip or trip and fall accident, or as a result of a dog bite or a faulty product, contact Flager & Associates and get the results you deserve.

Call Flager & Associates personal injury firm at 215-953-5200, or find us on the web at www.FlagerLaw.com and request a free case evaluation today.

That’s 215-953-5200, or on the web at www.FlagerLaw.com and request a free case evaluation today.

All right, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to the Flager & Associates Personal Injury Hour here on WWDB Talk 860.

Our host is Adam Flager of Flager & Associates, and our guest is Jeffrey DeLin, managing partner at Krasno Krasno & Onwudinjo.

We’re having a contest: if you can spell Onwudinjo—but you gotta do it fast—we’ll give you a free trip to Florida. I’m gonna win that one. You gotta be outside the— you gotta get those in 30 seconds or less.

So fantastic conversation. Adam, you wanted to jump on it?

Adam Flager (Host)

Yeah, I was going to give the example to follow up on Jeff’s point about, you know, you devote all this time, all these years, and your body and strength to a company.

Think about it with professional athletes, right? You might have— take football, since there’s a lot of injuries there— you might have been a thousand-yards-a-year running back. You might have helped win playoff games, a Super Bowl, what have you.

You start slipping, you have an injury— you’re getting cut, right?

And it doesn’t matter that you’ve helped them win a championship. It doesn’t matter that you’ve been the face of the franchise for how many years, and you’ve been an active member of the community.

It’s a business.

And so whether it’s a football team, basketball team, what have you, or a construction company, or any other company—you have to look out for yourself because employers are looking out for their company. They’re not looking out for you.

That’s why, you know, in a perfect world, you wouldn’t need us, but it’s not a perfect world.

And that’s why you do need Jeff and his team, because they fight for you when the employer is focused on themselves and their bottom line.

You need someone in your corner.

And that’s why it’s so critical to have experienced comp attorneys like Jeff and Jason and everyone else over there at the firm.

Because if they’re not looking out for you— and despite that, people still feel bad. They still feel connected, even though they’re about to get hosed by their employer of decades, right?

They still have that connection— even though I explain—

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Sorry to step on your toes.

I explain to people that if they rear end somebody in a car—or they’re rear ended— they call their insurance company.

It’s not that they’re suing their employer.

It’s bringing a claim against the employer’s insurance company— that every employer in Pennsylvania should have insurance. And, you know, that’s what they’ve got insurance for: to cover injured workers.

And that makes people feel better.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

It’s true.

And I get a kick out of— you know— so the insurance lobby is making sure everybody has to have the insurance. You gotta have it. Just don’t— that’s when you use it— that they push back, right?

It’s an oxymoron, right?

And so, you know, I’ve heard stories where— especially in work comp— where the owner of the building was right there, the only other company was right there, and it was a witness to the accident, but the insurance company’s still pushing back.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Oh, all the time. That’s just incredible.

And you know, Adam, to your point: just like you see in your personal injury cases, all the businesses like to play hide the ball, and there’s so much fraud on the business side by miscategorizing their employees or understating their payroll.

But it takes a sharp lawyer to cut through all that nonsense and get the injured worker what they deserve.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

I mean, it’s incredible.

How often have you seen somebody try to navigate the process themselves?

By the way, in workers’ comp, I’ve spoken to great PI attorneys like Adam Flager and Randy Flager and others that have flat-out talked about work comp and how specialized it is.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

We only see those cases when it gets to the point where they’ve screwed it up so bad they don’t know what to do.

But if they handle it on their own, we don’t see them because they handle it on their own.

They come to us, they say, “Oh my God, I think I’ve gotten myself into a bucket here, and you need to get me out.”

Joe Dougherty (Host)

How often do you hear about it a year— people after they’ve already tried to navigate themselves? Does that happen a lot?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

You know, everybody tries to navigate themselves for a period of time, and then they realize that they’re drowning, and they need a life preserver.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

How about— there’s a statute in your world, Adam, with personal injury.

And a lot of times— how often are they connected?

Let’s talk third-party cases here for a second.

How often—and who normally gets that?

In other words, Adam, do you get the third-party construction case? Does that normally go to Jeff first—or you? And how does that work?

Adam Flager (Host)

I would say it happens both ways.

Sometimes they’ll come to us first depending on what it is.

So a lot of times a car accident— if someone is driving but they’re on the clock for their company— maybe they’re a delivery driver or what have you— they think, “Oh, car accident. Need a car accident lawyer.”

But they usually think, “Oh, it’s a construction accident, so this is workers’ comp.”

And then sometimes that construction accident— well, there really was a different party involved that was not their employer, right?

And so then there’s a workers’ comp case, and then Jeff’s team has to figure out: hey, there’s actually a different company involved.

So yes, he’s getting comp because he’s on the clock, he’s working, but this other construction company is the one that caused the accident.

Hey, let me call Adam’s office up and refer that.

So it really depends.

We get them both ways.

Or sometimes I get a call and I investigate it and we say, you know, the only liability is against the employer, and as a result it’s strictly workers’ comp. I have nothing I can do.

But it really depends with what type of case as to which we get first and which they would get first.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Joe, thanks for giving me a soapbox. I gotta jump on just so your listeners know, and to pick up on what Adam was saying:

If you’re driving for work, you’re delivering something, and you’re in a car accident that isn’t your fault, you have two cases.

You have a case that Adam would handle for the personal injury side of things, and you have a case that we would handle for the workers’ comp side of things.

In workers’ comp, you get your medical bills paid related to the injury for reasonable and necessary treatment, and you get your lost wages.

Adam gets to claim all that plus pain and suffering.

There is no pain and suffering in workers’ comp for a money award.

So that’s a really big distinction that your listeners need to know.

In a third-party case, there’s pain and suffering.

Adam Flager (Host)

And another part of it is: in workers’ comp, you’re not getting 100% of your wages.

So let’s just simplify: you’re getting 60-some percent of your wages. That remaining, let’s just say 35–40% that you’re not getting— that is also part of our third-party personal injury case.

And the other thing that’s also interesting is: let’s say you have this job that you got injured on and you’re making $80,000 a year, and you can’t do that job anymore, and now you can only do a different job and make $50,000 a year, so you’re losing $30,000.

Sometimes— especially with these really serious work injury cases—you can’t go back to that job, and now you can only do a job that you’re making 30 grand a year less.

Well, let’s say you’re supposed to work for another 15 years. 30 grand— multiply that out—and we can get— it’s called earning impairment.

You’re not able to earn what you used to earn as a result of this accident. And that can also be part of the case as well.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

There’s something else I wanted to say, Joe:

With a firm like Adam’s—Flager & Associates—they know how to work with the workers’ comp attorneys for the mutual benefit of the client, and we know how to work with third-party attorneys for that same cause.

There are a lot of firms out there— whether it’s workers’ comp firms or personal injury firms— who don’t work together and coordinate their effort at the client’s expense.

One lawyer will throw the other lawyer’s case under the bus.

Flager & Associates doesn’t do that. We don’t do that. We work for our mutual client, and that is critical when it comes to the medical management of the case, documentation that’s being signed off by one side or the other.

There’s communication between the lawyers in firms that know what they’re doing.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

I was going to ask that question: communication.

Like Adam mentioned a little while ago— it’s always a pet peeve for clients, right?

A lot of firms that are not at the top of the tree— but no one ever talks about the communication between the professionals when you’re handling a third-party case.

I imagine in both of your worlds, having your referral partners are as important as your own team, because once you pass that case to another firm, that’s an extension of who you are.

Adam Flager (Host)

Yeah. Jeff is 100% correct.

And we work great with Jeff’s office to go through everything, as far as: hey, here’s what’s going on, here’s the medical records we got on this case, and here’s what’s going on.

Because if we’re working together, then it benefits our client in both cases.

There might be things that we can provide that’s helpful. There might be things that they can provide to us that are helpful.

And knowing what’s going on with the case—medical records, all of that—you have to know it.

You have to be able to deal with your co-counsel efficiently, productively.

And we’ve been doing that with Jeff’s office for decades.

I mean, my dad goes back to Jason’s father and dealing with him, and it’s been continuing for 30-some years at this point.

So it’s a great relationship, and it’s lasted that long because we work well together.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

There’s a nightmare scenario that I’ve heard, and it happens over and over again.

The workers’ comp case will go to settle or a stipulation will be entered into, and the crafty lawyer on the insurance company side will say, “Oh, you know what, you got the wrong name of our employer. It’s not WWDB, Inc. It’s WWDB Co.”

Holy cow.

And the innocent workers’ comp lawyer who didn’t check it with Adam— let’s say— changes that pleading.

And meanwhile, Adam has sued WWDB Co, and now he’s out of court because of what the workers’ comp lawyer did. Holy cow.

So that’s why communication is important.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

I think when I think of something like that— it makes it— you know— the importance of the professionals involved.

Also, I’ve heard scenarios about settlements, right?

Like in other words, how does that— how can these cases impact each other in the settlement process?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

We always have Adam and his crew review any settlement documentation to make sure that there’s nothing in there they don’t like before we ink a signature on it.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Wow.

Because I’ve heard of scenarios where somebody has signed their rights off— that you know— they may settle the comp case first, typically settles first, usually workers’ comp.

I’ve heard nightmare scenario— especially by somebody who dabbles in workers’ comp— where they sign off and end up giving up their rights for a third-party case.

That must be along the lines of what you just said.

Tragic. Yeah.

Adam— any instances you can think of where not having good communication with the other attorney impacts things?

Adam Flager (Host)

I mean, we’ve had situations where you’re naming 20 different corporate entities because you don’t know which one is the right party, and so you can’t take a chance.

So we do our— and that’s where some of those workers’ comp documents really come in handy to help us ascertain who’s the right party here.

But if you’re up against the statute, you can’t take the chance.

And so I’ve had a lot of situations where we’ll just name 20 defendants because it’s all ABC Company, Inc., ABC Company, LLC, ABC Company, LP— you know— they’re all similar-sounding names.

I had one recently where a company was sold, and there was the umbrella corporation, but then there were all these similarly named entities underneath.

Well, I didn’t know which one was.

And a lot of times, you know, Jeff was just talking about how they might try to change the name.

A lot of times defense attorneys don’t even know their own corporate entity’s name.

And I’ve had many situations where they will file a pleading and they’ll say, “ABC Company, Inc., incorrectly identified as ABC Company, LLC,” you know— and they’re saying that I incorrectly identified them in the pleading.

And I’ve had to tell the lawyer that represents that company: actually, this is what your company’s name is.

Here’s the corporate entity registration with the PA Department of State.

It’s mind boggling.

I had a case recently where an attorney who represents a lot of commercial mall properties in the area said, “This is actually the correct corporate name.”

And I said, “But we’ve sued them before, and it’s never come up.”

He said, “I know. I actually know what it is. None of these guys care to figure out what the proper name of the entity is, so they never even bring it up.”

And he broke it down for me, and I thought about how many times we’ve gone against these parties and they’ve never corrected it.

And that’s their client, and they don’t know their own client’s name.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

So Joe, you can see the kind of homework that Adam does when he files a lawsuit. Really intense.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

And, you know, I sit here and when I hear how often—

Jeff, how often is there a third-party component in a workers’ comp case?

And how sometimes can they get missed if it’s not an experienced attorney?

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

They can 100% get missed, absolutely.

You gotta have your antenna up for sniffing those out— to use a metaphor.

I think like 30-plus percent— whether it’s a personal injury case or an employment law case in our world, for sure.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Yeah, you think about it— that could be faulty equipment, right? I mean there’s—

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Slip and fall, another cleaning crew other than the employer’s responsible for the maintenance, absolutely.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

How often does your creativity come into play there where you’re like, “You know what— this looks—”

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Well, it’s Adam’s creativity. We send it to Adam and say, “Hey, you look at this, we think there might be something there,” right?

Joe Dougherty (Host)

We only got a couple minutes left, but Adam— when you get that case, how does that scenario work out?

Adam Flager (Host)

Listen, it’s a lot of digging at times.

And what’s interesting is you have to realize that if there is a third-party case that I can handle and Jeff’s handling comp, there’s a lien— so the workers’ comp insurance company can get their money back, or at least not all of it, but some of it back in the third-party case.

Now it increases the value of my case, but obviously some has to get paid back— not all of it— so that savings goes to the client.

So you would think that these workers’ comp insurance companies would want to find that third-party case so they could get some of their money back.

But they can’t stop thinking like insurance companies, and they can’t stop thinking, “No matter what, I’d rather lose money than help a personal injury lawyer,” even if it means I’m going to lose hundreds of thousands of dollars.

And so they don’t cooperate the way you would think they would cooperate to find that other party.

And as a result, they act like these big robots— because that’s what they are— and don’t use common sense.

So it’s a lot of digging.

Whether that’s in the comp file, whether that’s us hiring a private investigator, or even from the injured person themselves.

“Oh no, that’s not my employer. That’s a different company that does that work.”

All right, now we have something here.

Or, “Someone else cleans the bathrooms.” “No, that’s not in-house. That’s a third party. That’s who cleans it, and they didn’t do their job.”

So it’s trying to figure that out— documentation, speaking with people, whatever we have to do.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

Adam, I think the boneheaded moves that employers do to cut off their own nose to spite their face is a whole nother hour that you and I should talk about.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Happy to do it.

So listen, this has been the fastest hour in radio.

Jeffrey DeLin, if you would— contact information, if anybody’s looking to get in touch.

Jeffrey DeLin (Guest)

KrasnoLaw.com.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Fantastic. For your workers’ compensation needs and your Social Security Disability.

That’s right.

Adam Flager, contact information, my friend.

Adam Flager (Host)

Sure.

So Adam Flager, Flager & Associates, FlagerLaw.com — F as in Frank, L, A, G, E, R, L, A, W dot com.

215-953-5200.

And we’re on all your social media channels — Flager & Associates on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok, all that fun stuff.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Fantastic.

Listen, of course, I want to thank our guest, Jeffrey DeLin, managing partner at Krasno Krasno & Onwudinjo. I got that right. I got an Onwudinjo.

And of course, our host, Adam Flager— for real, you sound good, my friend. You sound good.

I think you’re recovering nicely, and we really appreciate your time.

Get some sleep tonight, because I know we got another one of these on Wednesday.

Adam Flager (Host)

Right. Yep. Yeah, I’m trying to take the cure and get back up and running.

Joe Dougherty (Host)

Fantastic.

Of course, we want to thank Eric, our producer.

On behalf of Jeffrey DeLin and Adam Flager and everybody listening, I’m Joe Dougherty. Thanks for listening, everybody. You.